<table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0" ><tr><td valign="top" style="font: inherit;"><br><blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"><div id="yiv901824449"><table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td style="font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; font-size: inherit; line-height: inherit; font-size-adjust: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; -x-system-font: none;" valign="top"><div id="yiv593602546"><br><br>--- On <b>Sat, 27/3/10, selven <i><pcthegreat@gmail.com></i></b> wrote:<br><blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"><br>From: selven <pcthegreat@gmail.com><br>Subject: Re: [lugm.org] check this weirdness out<br>To: "LUGM Discuss Mailing List" <discuss@lugm.org><br>Date: Saturday, 27 March, 2010, 15:35<br><br><div class="plainMail">On Sat, Mar 27, 2010
at 10:32 AM, Loganaden Velvindron<br><<a rel="nofollow">gnukid1@yahoo.co.uk</a>> wrote:<br>><br>> The performance gains that some people claim to be able<br>> to achieve with freebsd is achieved by offloading to the<br>> hardware as possible.<br><br>:) I didn't claim anything ... i just told you to do the benchmark
and<br>compare the results.<br>So.. if you wish to find some obscure excuses for why it lagged a bit<br>on the benchmark, you are free to do so, and it sure is great things<br>to know. BUT :) atleast... for now if freebsd is able to cope for<br>certain of those things that i need for now (in a faster way).. why<br>should i change?<br><br>I see no obscure excuses, if someone disables offloading in <br>freebsd, i'd bet that GNU/Linux will probably be faster. Come on,<br>the average kernel developer is paid by IBM/RedHat and has<br>4 Gb RAM desktops running with hardware RAID. All freebsd people<br>have is a remote cluster to tinker with.<br><br>> Look at freebsd's em(4) driver, it's written by Intel Corporation<br>> and simply included in freebsd without any peer review by the supposed<br>> developers of ``Free'' BSD. For support, you have to complain to<br>> Intel. How much is this different from Windows and proprietary OSes<br>> in
practice ?<br>><br><br>The question that i ask myself is how much is THIS different from non<br>proprietary OSes?<br><br>Other don't trust buggy hardware offload engine as FreeBSD does ?<br><br>As we can see from the man page of FreeBSD :<br>-------------------<br>SUPPORT<br> For general information and support, go to the Intel support website at:<br> <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://support.intel.com">http://support.intel.com</a>.<br><br> If an issue is identified with the released source code on the supported<br> kernel with a supported adapter, email the specific information related<br> to the issue to <<a rel="nofollow">freebsdnic@mailbox.intel.com</a>>.<br>--------------------<br><br>>From
OpenBSD:<br><br>-------------------<br><br>AUTHORS<br> The em driver was written by Intel Corporation.<br><br>-------------------<br><br>I have been trying to find some information about what driver is used<br>for "Linux Intel(R) PRO/1000 Gigabit " on linux.. unfortunately.. huh<br>there was no doc :p (por maybe i should have searched through the<br>whole lot of results sent by google?).<br><br>Personally, i don't believe drivers should be the problem of the OS,<br>but the hardware manufacturers... they need to sell their drivers so<br>they've got to do sell a complete product..<br><br>And what happens when the hardware is EOLed ? We let the driver<br>rot or lock the API to support backward compatibility ? Nice way<br>to get a ``Free'' OS to evolve.<br><br><br>Also, am not arguing saying that FreeBSD is perfect :p it is't, Linux<br>isn't perfect either :D.<br>You don't like it, you don't use it.<br><br>That's why I'm warning
people against using it. I dislike FreeBSD in<br>its _current_ state. However, if they start fixing their code, then I wouldn't<br>mind recommending it to other. Fair right ?<br><br>> The Linux developers have long opposed this practice because it complicate<br>> matters and makes debugging very difficult. (Is it in my code, or in the firmware of<br>> the ethernet controller ?).<br>><br>> See this:<br>> <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/linux/linux-kernel/2003-28/0029.html">http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/linux/linux-kernel/2003-28/0029.html</a><br>><br><br>So you want to impose the Linux way of managing a project on FreeBSD? :)<br>Communist! :p<br><br>Better be communist and get something decent out the doors. As the<br>saying goes `` A camel is a horse designed by a committee'', and freebsd<br>has confirmed it again.<br><br>> What the Linux people try to do is optimizing their code, while<br>> the
freebsd people
have taken the lazy approach to improve<br>> performance.<br><br>Which is why with a simple benchmarking with mails and AVs they've<br>lagged behind a crappy OS like FBSD?<br><br>Read this :<br><br><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/linux/linux-kernel/2003-28/0029.html">http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/linux/linux-kernel/2003-28/0029.html</a><br><br>> As for the freebsd docs, it's good :-) It's the same as saying<br>> ``Microsoft has MSDN, FreeBSD has something similar too !''<br><br>True indeed, the only difference is that the handbook is more readable<br>that MSDN.<br><br>Thanks to you I believe we should all stop using OSes that have<br>documentations... Let's go to the source each time we need to find out<br>the API of something. :) Now i can see how fast we can concentrate on<br>problem solving more rather than fight with the machine :)<br><br>The handbook has a very corporate feeling, glad you like it.<br><br>>
I'd largely
prefer to trust Linux for running a large volume mail<br>> server, at least I know the developers can fix problems if my<br>> ethernet controller hangs up (It happened for a production server<br>> at dedibox), instead of trying to get 5% performance gain and limited<br>> support :-)<br><br>:D Is it faster to get the problem solved by waiting for the<br>developers to fix it or to throw in $1000 and get a stable and<br>supported Ethernet card?<br><br>$1000 for an ethernet card ? We paid $100 dollars monthly/server.<br>Are you putting gold plates inside that ethernet controller ? :-) <br><br>I guess you'd say wait 2 months for the developers to fix the problem.<br>Sure if you want, you can.. suits you :) ... your competitors will<br>wait because they can understand a small driver issue i guess...<br>praise be the good hearted competitors out there ... amen.<br><br>took around 1 week to fix the issue. Halting activity for one week<br>to get a
stable ethernet driver, rather than riding months with spotty<br>driver issues is called what I'd called long-term planning :-D<br><br><br>> As I said previously, save yourself the trouble and use GNU/Linux !<br><br>Well, I'll say... Save your soul and use the Open Source project that<br>suits your needs best instead of running after perfection :)<br><br>It's not about perfection, it's about being far from crappiness as possible,<br>and getting least number of negative feedback. FreeBSD has a number<br>of issues currently. If they get their act together, I wouldn't mind <br>re-evaluating it ;-)<br><br>ps. OS wars were never productive, its an open source project, you<br>find something that needs to be changed.. join in and contribute :p<br><br>I'm a user.<br><br>pps. The Only Perfect OS i know of is the GNU/Hurd ... we all know its fate :)<br><br><br>GNU/Hurd is broken. It's mostly about changing micro-kernels with<br>what is currently the buzz-name
in academic circles. <br><br> <br><br>^^<br>+selven<br><br>__________________________________________________________<br>Linux User Group of Mauritius (LUGM) Discuss mailing list<br>Website: <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://lugm.org">http://lugm.org</a><br>Mailing list archive: <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://lugm.org/pipermail/discuss_lugm.org/">http://lugm.org/pipermail/discuss_lugm.org/</a><br>Forum: <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://lugm.org/forum/">http://lugm.org/forum/</a><br>IRC: #linux.mu on Freenode<br></div></blockquote></div></td></tr></tbody></table><br>
</div></blockquote></td></tr></table><br>