[lugm.org] Announcing a Mauritian tech forum

Wed Dec 18 17:23:25 UTC 2013

> * why isn't this IX working?

Simply because it was wrongly setup.

> * what can be done to revive it?

Nothing can be done, the IX is run, operated & controlled by MT. I've
spoken to the guy a few months ago, but they still do not understand the
concept and principle of peering.

> * if the ISPs aren't going to do this themselves, how can we, as civil
society, organise ourselves to get this done?

This is something i have tried to accomplish a few months ago. I have
enough space on 1st floor at CT1 (a perfect location since all carriers are
present there) along with loads of carrier grade equipment. But i have been
denied IP space (whether free or paid)... I was simply told to get that
done via private space.. And of course a board member at the RIR influenced
that decision, after all the doctor knows everything.

K

On Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 8:28 PM, selven <pcthegreat at gmail.com> wrote:

>
> On Dec 18, 2013 1:57 PM, "Nishal Goburdhan" <ndg at ieee.org> wrote:
> >
> > On 17 Dec 2013, at 10:33 PM, selven <pcthegreat at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Ipv6, great stuffs, but why would i change if currently v4 is not much
> a problem for me. Even as a tech user i just adapt only out of need to keep
> myself as lazy as possible.
> >
> > this appears to largely be a repeat of avinash's question ("what does
> IPv6 bring"), so i'll try to answer both here *briefly*.
> >
> > the short answer is that you live and work in an environment where the
> basis for your connection (IPv4) is now depleted.  there is *no* other
> sustainable solution for the future other than IPv6, so if you plan to
> continue to live and work in this environment, when do you plan to develop
> the skills to do this?  when you absolutely need it in a pinch, or now (or,
> 5years ago) so that you're prepared for this transition.
> >
>
> True. But am a coder and sometimes into architecture. Shifting v4 to v6 is
> just a script away. The skills needed, that has always been read the manual
> read the rfc mix wiv instinct. So shifting does not seem a big deal hence
> why i believe without the pressure to shift to v6 i wnt :) money talks.
> Business owners decides that :) and i do only what am paid to do during
> work time. Yes i do advise, but i will never 'convince'. So isnt there a
> consortium to convince the world to shift?
>
>
>
> > you're blindly buffered into believing that NAPT is going to continue to
> scale, and allow you to run your business in the same manner you do now.
> because, you see this (NAPT) working in your small networks now, and equate
> that similar operation to what a carrier would need to do, at the same
> level of operation.  that's...quite incorrect!  and it's simple to
> understand - resources (memory, ports, hash-algorithms) are all finite, and
> *will* be consumed by ever greedy, ever hungy additional connections.
> >
> > i always find that amusing;  particularly, since the blue-chip vendors
> who are building these large carrier-grade NAT boxes, are the same ones
> saying:  "um..guys, sure, we're selling you this stuff, and we know it
> won't scale....(but we still want your money)".
> >
> > there are many more reasons why you should go IPv6 :-)   but i promised
> my answer would be brief.  and there are other people here that probably
> also want to contribute (you know who you are!)
> >
>
> But some just make things works with just a linux or bsd box. The pressure
> to shift to v6 is not yet there. Because it doesnot bring any added profit
> yet. And like i said earlier, shifting now or shifting later is a matter of
> at most one hour downtime (worst case scenario).
>
> > you can get lots more info here:
> http://www.internetsociety.org/deploy360/ipv6/all-ipv6-resources/
> >
> >
>
> Lots of papers not enough convincing of business owners. Can iss fix my
> latency issue because my isp has bad knowledge of routes or doesnt peer
> wisely? Can iss convince the mauritian society to shift to v6 to ease my
> life (yes v6 everywhere wud had eased my life but if it is not every it
> does not). The answer is probably no, which is why i do not believe there
> is anything worthwhile in moving now.
>
> > > Mauritian hosting easy to say but how do you provide cheap hosting
> given the crappy connection versus price we have here?
> >
> > economists talk about economies of scale that are needed to drive down
> prices.
> > how do you *ever* plan to drive down pricing to what you're willing to
> accept as "decent", if you don't start building scale ?
> >
>
> Economist also killed the barter system so as to allowed those who cant
> produce to live like bacterias off others.
>
> How do you start anything hosting wise even local when you have stupid
> isps who if u want to ping an adbn box in the same country as you makes
> your packet travel to london (linx maybe) then back to mauritius. This wud
> be fighting against the current.
>
> > if you continue to invest in the $3 SaaS $colo_provided_vm, you're never
> going to grow your local business sectors.  well, that is until your
> regulator realises that, as a country you're spending XX-million hosting
> outside the country, and in an effort to improve the BoP, they pass a law
> that says all mauritian content *must* be hosted in-country.   (really, you
> think i'm dreaming?  think again!!)
> >
>
> If i want to make a business i shud first of all think about filling my
> pockets, making the country happy is secondary. We are not in a perfect
> world where you can do this.
>
> > today, we have lots of colo centres in ZA;  local hosting is a fraction
> of what it used to be a decade ago.
>
> See my comment about local boxes connecting to each other might reach over
> 280ms rtt.
>
> > it's still more expensive than a VM in SFO, but, there's sufficient
> realisation that there is true value in keeping content in country.
>
> Keeping content in country if it raises your expenses makes customers
> unhappy and makes  u earn lesser. Every has to eat. I do not make my
> country happy when i know corruption causes incompetent ppl to work at
> positions that cud have helped us gain better service. Am not a moron to
> enrich the country so as ppl steal from it. I prefer to salvage and
> sabotage it instead so as bacterias and viruses do not see anything to
> steal and leave it alone *cough* *politicians*
>
> > (for a start, it actually *does* make it a lot tougher for the NSA to
> get to... :-p)
> > how are you - as the assumed informed crowd - promoting this
> want/need/desire to keep things in-country?
> > because - honestly - if you don't sit up and promote these ideas, whom
> do you expect to?
> > do you active choose *not* to purchase from a non-local site?
> > and then *tell* the operator why you're boycotting him?
> >
>
> You cant boycott the isp with the monopoly.
>
> > true story:  when i landed in MU in 2009, i needed a bank account.  i
> thought SBM would be the natural bank to use;  that is, until i saw that
> their website was hosted in australia.  i wrote to them, to tell them that
> they had lost a customer.  and *why*.  if more people did that, don't you
> think that they'd sit up, and take notice?   between then, and 2012, when i
> left, i convinced 4 other expat staff at our MU office, *not* to use SBM,
> and in each case to send SBM a letter (we cheated;  they used my template).
>  you - as a consumer - need to start using your single most important
> weapon - your wallet - to determine how you make purchasing decisions.
> >
>
> Sbm is still running. And it is still outsourcing it is normal stuffs.
>
> > on my last trip to MU (circa May 2013) i spoke to an ISP that had
> recently put in a direct interconnection, between ZA and MU.
>
> That is adbn. Ex nomad. It is not for common users. And i called to get a
> business line. I called thrice and the sales person was still lunching for
> 3 hrs.
> I do not call more than 3 times.
>
> > i just checked - it's still in place.  so, right now, that's roughly
> 60ms between JNB and ebene.
>
> 54ms to be exact
> Try mt to an adbn box now.
>
> > right now, both their regular competitors have roughly 400ms back to MU
> from my home in JNB.
> > they (progressive ISP) were looking for ideas on how to resell this
> capacity.
> > out of curiousity, i asked them for regular pricing;  they were on par
> 15% cheaper than two other larger ISPs that i know of.
> > so.  cheaper, and faster.  mm...can you honestly tell me that you can't
> think of at least seven different business ideas here, none of which
> involve hosting in MU?
>
> Told you i already went through this. Keshwarsing can attest :)
>
> > (and really, if you can't, then let me know if you have oodles of
> venture capital, because i certainly can !!)
> >
> > how do you eat an elephant  ?
> >
> >
>
> With friends. But why share the elephant if you hunted it alone?
>
> > > Singapore, some ips go through malaysia some still goes through linx
> weird peering. That is also why am unable to use my quakelive premium
> account in singapore any more, latency is a b*tch.
> >
> > so, in one sentence, you complain about latency being a b***h,.....but,
> then collectively, largely don't see a problem with overseas hosting
> > something smells fishy here :-)
> >
> >
>
> :) check local inter isp latency :) price wise it is better to go for out
> of country hosting.
>
> > > How would you propose to solve the hosting problem without having to
> give up all your fortune to MT and still get any profit out of it? Setting
> up local exchange points and bypassing isp crazy rivalry? Who sponsors the
> scene?
> >
> > i have enough equipment in my home right now, to sponsor you, if you
> wanted to build an internet exchange point.
>
> :) am working on a better alternative to kill isps profit at once :)
> coders win!
>
> > and speaking as someone that currently manages three (3) active IXes, i
> can tell you that it doesn't take a lot of time and effort to run these.
>  but why build a new one, when there's already an IX in ebene?  better
> questions would be:
>
> But peerong is decided by the isp not the exchange you cant force isps to
> share their routes if they do not want.
>
> > * why isn't this IX working?
> > * what can be done to revive it?
> > * if the ISPs aren't going to do this themselves, how can we, as civil
> society, organise ourselves to get this done?
>
> It is not an isp problem it is more of political order. They are happy
> enjoying the monopoly.
>
> ---_--------------i'll reply the rest later. I need food and i need woman
> and i need to get high. Reply in some hours.---++++---------
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > don't downplay the role of well organised public outcry.  the
> mybroadband forum that i mentioned earlier, managed to get some amazing
> stuff done to get transparency from the different broadband operators here.
>  still not at the point where we'd want, but...better than before.
> >
> > there are more operators than MT (yip, true story!).  so start "voting
> with your wallet" and showing support to the other operators, who would
> probably be really interesting in looking for new business ideas, as they
> *need* to eat into MT's market share...
> > it's still possible to deploy simple services, and virtualise around
> that - heck it's so much easier to do this now, than it was a decade ago.
>  if you hope to make money out of selling the simple web-hosting, perhaps
> you'd better re-think your model.  operators are fast realising that
> bandwidth, hosting etc are commodities, and the "S" in ISP is what people
> really want.
> >
> > i can say more, but that would require you wave that venture capital
> cheque at me :-)
> >
> >
> > > :) the problem is not technical it is with the people itself no one
> can do anything about it because of the society's corruptive nature.
> >
> > honestly, selven, that's a defeatist argument, and i know, that you know
> better.
> > if what you're saying is true, then no country with a single incumbent
> could have ever hope to be successful.  and history shows us otherwise.  so
> instead of throwing your hands up in the air, and crying foul, find ways to
> work within the system, while getting the system to change to what
> you/society/industry/blah believe it should be.
> > where *is* your civil society representation?  what happened to ISOC-MU?
>   who represents your individual interests in policy making (if this is a
> concern for you?)   a year or so ago, there was a consultative paper
> request for the redelegation of .MU, put forth by the ICTA;  i recall,
> because i posted it here.  did anyone (besides SM) comment on it?  :-)
> > before this de-reails any more from the original thread, i'd like to
> echo what i said earlier:  for this (or anything) to succeed, it requires
> community participation.
> >
> >
> > > Binary.mu might work, i remember when i was still running hackers.muit used to run decently with decent amount of ppl without me actually doing
> anything to it. Problem is you need lots of patience to keep focus into
> moderating the place.
> > > Good luck for binary.mu
> >
> >
> > ....or, you need a plan to make, and keep it sustainable.
> >
> > again - i'll remind you - i raised these two issues, because, the
> "techies" are often looked upon to shape the way things move.  if you're
> not seeing the value of, and/or need for either IPv6, or local hosting,
> well, quite frankly, i'd be quite worried about your vision of the future...
> >
> > --n.
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