[lugm.org] Fwd: [FTF-Legal] Mildly GPL related case in Supreme Court of Mauritius

Ajay R Ramjatan ajay.ramjatan at gmail.com
Thu Jun 30 12:22:30 UTC 2011 

I have called Linux Solutions. Unfortunately, the person listed in the court
document was not available and I was told she would not be available for the
next few days. Nobody was able to comment on the court matter and I was
asked to contact the director of the company.

On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 23:34, kn <kn at debian.mu> wrote:

> I wonder who killed such a spicy ml… :-<>-:****
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* discuss-bounces at lugm.org [mailto:discuss-bounces at lugm.org] *On
> Behalf Of *Loganaden Velvindron
> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 28, 2011 9:16 PM
>
> *To:* LUGM Discuss Mailing List
> *Subject:* Re: [lugm.org] Fwd: [FTF-Legal] Mildly GPL related case in
> Supreme Court of Mauritius****
>
> ** **
>
> The Software Freedom Law Center is perhaps more appropriate.
>
> http://www.softwarefreedom.org/
>
> Incidently, there's an audio podcast concerning employment
> and NDA:
>
> http://www.softwarefreedom.org/podcast-media/FaiF_0x0D_NDAs.ogg
>
> --- On *Tue, 28/6/11, Ronny R. <redoverlord at gmail.com>* wrote:****
>
>
> From: Ronny R. <redoverlord at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [lugm.org] Fwd: [FTF-Legal] Mildly GPL related case in
> Supreme Court of Mauritius
> To: "LUGM Discuss Mailing List" <discuss at lugm.org>
> Date: Tuesday, 28 June, 2011, 17:19****
>
> i'm ok for asking help from EFF and al.
>
> whois al anyway? :)
>
> Cheers
>
> Ronny
>
> On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 8:13 PM,  <aadil at lavabit.com<http://mc/compose?to=aadil@lavabit.com>>
> wrote:
> > Apologies for the spam (SMTP server issues).
> >
> >> Hello,
> >>
> >> Of course the LUGM should not get directly involved.
> >>
> >> How should we proceed then?  What do the others think?  Is submitting
> > the documents to the defendant's lawyers the only solution?  How about
> > asking for advice from the EFF and al?
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >> Aadil.
> >>
> >> On 6/28/2011 7:43 PM, Ronny R. wrote:
> >>> In law, standing or locus standi is the term for the ability of a party
> > to demonstrate to the court sufficient connection to and harm from the
> > law or action challenged to support that party's
> >>> participation in the case
> >>> On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 7:41 PM, Ronny R.<redoverlord at gmail.com<http://mc/compose?to=redoverlord@gmail.com>
> >
> > wrote:
> >>>> like i said
> >>>> this is a civil case, so as long as we dont have a locus standi, we
> > cannot get involved directly by submitting anything.
> >>>> The only was we get involved is that the defendant use us as experts
> > in FOSS laws (which we are not)
> >>>> We can only get the documents and submit to the defendant's lawyers
> > who will submit to the court.
> >>>> I also wonder if the mauritian courts have these documents.
> >>>> But definitely we cannot allow this case to cause a precedence which
> > will be used in case of other future case.
> >>>> Cheers
> >>>> Ronny
> >>>> On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 7:19 PM, Aadil Noorkhan<aadil at lavabit.com<http://mc/compose?to=aadil@lavabit.com>
> >
> > wrote:
> >>>>> Hello,
> >>>>> Indeed.  The defendant and plaintiff should seek the court's help in
> > settling this argument.
> >>>>> It is disturbing to note, however, that statement 5 of the affidavit
> > contradicts the main points of the GPL.
> >>>>> This can used as a precedence for future cases.
> >>>>> Cheers,
> >>>>> Aadil.
> >>>>> On 6/28/2011 7:00 PM, Ajay R Ramjatan wrote:
> >>>>>> Hi,
> >>>>>>   From what I understand, the defendant was contracted to work on
> >>>>>> some
> >>>>>> code for Linux Solutions. The defendant decided to publish the code
> > without the consent of the employer.
> >>>>>> If that's accurate, the defendant was doing a "work for hire" and
>  was
> >>>>>> in the wrong to release the code.
> >>>>>> It does not seem to be a case of a customer buying a PABX product
> from
> >>>>>> Linux Solutions and then changing/redistributing GPL code
> >>>>>> On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 18:46, Aadil Noorkhan<aadil at lavabit.com<http://mc/compose?to=aadil@lavabit.com>
> >
> > wrote:
> >>>>>>> Hello,
> >>>>>>> I agree with Ronny: we are not lawyers and not expert in FOSS
> > licences.
> >>>>>>>   But
> >>>>>>> we should have a better understanding of those licences than most
> > people
> >>>>>>> and
> >>>>>>> should point it to the law, while remaining neutral.
> >>>>>>> Cheers,
> >>>>>>> Aadil.
> >>>>>>> On 6/28/2011 6:40 PM, Ronny R. wrote:
> >>>>>>>> we can also make the applicant aware that we are keen to help the
> > defendant
> >>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 6:39 PM, Ronny R.<redoverlord at gmail.com<http://mc/compose?to=redoverlord@gmail.com>
> >
> >>>>>>>>   wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> hello
> >>>>>>>>> my opinion is that
> >>>>>>>>> 1. we are not lawyers
> >>>>>>>>> 2. sending a letter to the court is of no use as we dont have any
> > locus
> >>>>>>>>> standi
> >>>>>>>>> 3. we better advise defendant to counter affidavit the one of the
> > applicant and then we can be of some help
> >>>>>>>>> but please note that in no case can we act as expert og the GPL
> > laws,
> >>>>>>>>> we can provide the text and let the lawyers of the defendant
> analyse
> >>>>>>>>> and show to the court.
> >>>>>>>>> Cheers
> >>>>>>>>> Ronny
> >>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 6:26 PM, Aadil
> > Noorkhan<aadil at lavabit.com <http://mc/compose?to=aadil@lavabit.com>>
> >>>>>>>>>   wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> Hello,
> >>>>>>>>>> The fraudulent statements in the affidavit are disturbing
> > indeed.
> >>>>>>>>>> We should inform the Supreme Court and both parties of the
> > misleading
> >>>>>>>>>> statements via email and a letter, backed by solid evidence and
> > signed
> >>>>>>>>>> by
> >>>>>>>>>> the LUGM managing committee, or simply the president.
> >>>>>>>>>> If no response is received then we sent the letter to the press.
> > Cheers,
> >>>>>>>>>> Aadil.
> >>>>>>>>>> On 6/28/2011 5:24 PM, Avinash Meetoo wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>> Dear all,
> >>>>>>>>>>> I have just received this email from Philip Hands in the UK
> > referring
> >>>>>>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>>>>> a case currently in the Supreme Court of Mauritius. It would
> seem
> >>>>>>>>>>> that
> >>>>>>>>>>> the two parties involved have different opinions on what an
> > open
> >>>>>>>>>>> source
> >>>>>>>>>>> license really is, more specifically the GPL. Someone called
> > Harald
> >>>>>>>>>>> Welte has written a post on his blog on this matter.
> >>>>>>>>>>> A few months ago, someone called me at work asking me about
> > what
> >>>>>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>>>> GPL
> >>>>>>>>>>> really means but I am not sure whether he is one of the parties
> > concerned.
> >>>>>>>>>>> What do you think?
> >>>>>>>>>>> Avinash
> >>>>>>>>>>> ---
> >>>>>>>>>>> From: *Philip Hands*<phil at hands.com<http://mc/compose?to=phil@hands.com>
> <mailto:phil at hands.com <http://mc/compose?to=phil@hands.com>>>
> > Date: Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 4:01 PM
> >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [FTF-Legal] Mildly GPL related case in Supreme Court
> > of
> >>>>>>>>>>> Mauritius
> >>>>>>>>>>> Hi Avinash,
> >>>>>>>>>>> I'm forwarding this to your mailing list in the hope that
> > someone on
> >>>>>>>>>>> the list knows how to inform your Supreme Court properly.  It
> > wasn't
> >>>>>>>>>>> clear to me if that was a subscriber-only list though, so I'm
> also
> >>>>>>>>>>> sending it to you direct, as you appear to to be the founder of
> > the
> >>>>>>>>>>> LUG. I hope that's OK.
> >>>>>>>>>>> Here is the main point from the attached mail:
> >>>>>>>>>>> http://laforge.gnumonks.org/weblog/2011/06/27/
> >>>>>>>>>>> in which you can see that someone from
> >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.linuxsolutions.mu/
> >>>>>>>>>>> seem to be claiming (under oath) that there is no difference
> > between
> >>>>>>>>>>> GPL
> >>>>>>>>>>> licensed software, and Public Domain.
> >>>>>>>>>>> I'm sure that any feedback that you have would be welcome,
> > either on
> >>>>>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>>>> ftf-legal-bounces at fsfeurope.org<http://mc/compose?to=ftf-legal-bounces@fsfeurope.org>
> <mailto:ftf-legal-bounces at fsfeurope.org<http://mc/compose?to=ftf-legal-bounces@fsfeurope.org>
> >
> > mailing list, or perhaps if you get in
> >>>>>>>>>>> touch with Harald Welte<laforge at gnumonks.org<http://mc/compose?to=laforge@gnumonks.org>
> >>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:laforge at gnumonks.org<http://mc/compose?to=laforge@gnumonks.org>>>,
> and he can then update
> >>>>>>>>>>> his blog (of course, you're welcome to reply to me as well).
> > Cheers, Phil.
> >>>>>>>>>>> P.S. FYI I'm a long-time Debian Developer, and have hosted the
> > Debian
> >>>>>>>>>>> UK
> >>>>>>>>>>> mirror (ftp.uk.debian.org<http://ftp.uk.debian.org>) since the
> mid
> >>>>>>>>>>> 90's
> >>>>>>>>>>> -- and I make occasional
> >>>>>>>>>>> contributions to the Free Software Foundation Europe mailing
> list
> >>>>>>>>>>> where
> >>>>>>>>>>> this issue came up.
> >>>>>>>>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> >>>>>>>>>>> From: Harald
> >>>>>>>>>>> Welte<laforge at gnumonks.org<http://mc/compose?to=laforge@gnumonks.org>
> <mailto:laforge at gnumonks.org <http://mc/compose?to=laforge@gnumonks.org>>>
> To:
> > ftf-legal at fsfeurope.org <http://mc/compose?to=ftf-legal@fsfeurope.org>
> <mailto:ftf-legal at fsfeurope.org<http://mc/compose?to=ftf-legal@fsfeurope.org>>
> Date:
> > Tue, 28 Jun 2011 11:58:53 +0200
> >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [FTF-Legal] Mildly GPL related case in Supreme Court
> > of
> >>>>>>>>>>> Mauritius
> >>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
> >>>>>>>>>>> since I don't expect everyone here is following my blog, I
> > would
> >>>>>>>>>>> like
> >>>>>>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>>>>> post a small notice here:
> >>>>>>>>>>> http://laforge.gnumonks.org/weblog/2011/06/27/
> >>>>>>>>>>> The case is mostly about whether or not a freelancing
> > contractor
> >>>>>>>>>>> (defendant) has broken and NDA and anti-competition clauses he
> > signed
> >>>>>>>>>>> with the plaintiff.
> >>>>>>>>>>> I don't understand all the details as I have only some of the
> > documents, but for whatever reasons a "duly authorized
> > marketing
> >>>>>>>>>>> and
> >>>>>>>>>>> sales executive" of the company ceritifed under oath that
> > "open-source
> >>>>>>>>>>> software like "Linux" have no copyright restrictions, which in
> > effect
> >>>>>>>>>>> puts no restrictions on their user or distribution".  And
> > furthermore,
> >>>>>>>>>>> "any work derived from the open source software [...] becomes
> the
> >>>>>>>>>>>   ownership of the applicant"
> >>>>>>>>>>> I don't really see how this is cloesly related to the heart of
> the
> >>>>>>>>>>> case,
> >>>>>>>>>>> but I still think it's devastating to see such an argument be
> > made in
> >>>>>>>>>>> front of the highest court of any (albeit small) country. I'm
> > not sure what can be done by the outside world (e.g. us) to
> > help
> >>>>>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>>>> court understand that Linux as well as Asterisk are very well
> > copyrighted works, and that at least Linux is only available
> > under
> >>>>>>>>>>> GPLv2, which has a number of conditions on its distribution. If
> > anyone is interested in this, I have some more documetns
> > that
> >>>>>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>>>> defendant has permitted me to share (not sure if he has
> > authority to
> >>>>>>>>>>> permit that, but well...).
> >>>>>>>>>>> (and in case you wonder, Mauritius has signed the Berne
> > convention in
> >>>>>>>>>>>   1989).
> >>>>>>>>>>> Specifically if anyone has an interest to send some kind of
> > letter/amicus curiae to the court clarifying the issue, it
> > would
> >>>>>>>>>>> be
> >>>>>>>>>>> great.  Apparently there are arguments on the lines of "you
> cannot
> >>>>>>>>>>> just
> >>>>>>>>>>> download the GPL text from the internet and claim it is valid"
> > etc.
> >>>>>>>>>>> The Judge seemed to describe himself as 'computer illiterate'.
> > Maybe there are also some existing English legal publications
> > that
> >>>>>>>>>>> one
> >>>>>>>>>>> could DHL/FedEx/UPS to the court ;)
> >>>>>>>>>>> Regards,
> >>>>>>>>>>>         Harald
> >>>>>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>>>>> - Harald
> >>>>>>>>>>> Welte<laforge at gnumonks.org<http://mc/compose?to=laforge@gnumonks.org>
> <mailto:laforge at gnumonks.org <http://mc/compose?to=laforge@gnumonks.org>>>
> > http://laforge.gnumonks.org/
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> ============================================================================
> > "Privacy in residential applications is a desirable marketing
> > option."
> >>>>>>>>>>>                                                   (ETSI EN 300
> >>>>>>>>>>> 175-7
> >>>>>>>>>>> Ch.
> >>>>>>>>>>> A6)
> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>> FTF-Legal mailing list
> >>>>>>>>>>> FTF-Legal at fsfeurope.org<http://mc/compose?to=FTF-Legal@fsfeurope.org>
> <mailto:FTF-Legal at fsfeurope.org<http://mc/compose?to=FTF-Legal@fsfeurope.org>
> >
> > https://mail.fsfeurope.org/mailman/listinfo/ftf-legal
> >>>>>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>>>>> |)|  Philip Hands [+44 (0)20 8530 9560
> >>>>>>>>>>> <tel:%5B%2B44%20%280%2920%208530%209560>]
> http://www.hands.com/
> > |-| HANDS.COM<http://HANDS.COM>      Ltd.
> >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.uk.debian.org/
> >>>>>>>>>>> |(|  10 Onslow Gardens, South Woodford, London  E18 1NE
> > ENGLAND
> >>>>>>>>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> >>>>>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>>>>> *Avinash Meetoo**
> >>>>>>>>>>> **Managing-Director of Knowledge Seven*
> >>>>>>>>>>> Call me on 493-9394 (Mobile) or 464-7446 (Office)
> >>>>>>>>>>> I am on my portal<http://www.avinashmeetoo.com/>, LinkedIn
> > <http://www.linkedin.com/in/avinashmeetoo>, Twitter
> >>>>>>>>>>> <http://twitter.com/AvinashMeetoo>      and Facebook
> >>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.facebook.com/avinashmeetoo>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Visit Knowledge Seven<http://www.knowledge7.com/>      and our
> > other
> >>>>>>>>>>> sister
> >>>>>>>>>>> websites<http://www.knowledge7.com/page/internet-services>
> > __________________________________________________________
> > Linux User Group of Mauritius (LUGM) Discuss mailing list
> > Website: http://lugm.org
> >>>>>>>>>>> Mailing list archive:
> >>>>>>>>>>> http://lugm.org/pipermail/discuss_lugm.org/
> >>>>>>>>>>> Forum: http://lugm.org/forum/
> >>>>>>>>>>> IRC: #linux.mu on Freenode
> >>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________________ Linux
> > User Group of Mauritius (LUGM) Discuss mailing list Website:
> > http://lugm.org
> >>>>>>>>>> Mailing list archive:
> > http://lugm.org/pipermail/discuss_lugm.org/
> >>>>>>>>>> Forum: http://lugm.org/forum/
> >>>>>>>>>> IRC: #linux.mu on Freenode
> >>>>>>>> __________________________________________________________ Linux
> > User Group of Mauritius (LUGM) Discuss mailing list
> >>>>>>>> Website: http://lugm.org
> >>>>>>>> Mailing list archive: http://lugm.org/pipermail/discuss_lugm.org/
> > Forum: http://lugm.org/forum/
> >>>>>>>> IRC: #linux.mu on Freenode
> >>>>>>> __________________________________________________________
> >>>>>>> Linux User Group of Mauritius (LUGM) Discuss mailing list
> >>>>>>> Website: http://lugm.org
> >>>>>>> Mailing list archive: http://lugm.org/pipermail/discuss_lugm.org/
> > Forum: http://lugm.org/forum/
> >>>>>>> IRC: #linux.mu on Freenode
> >>>>>> __________________________________________________________
> >>>>>> Linux User Group of Mauritius (LUGM) Discuss mailing list
> >>>>>> Website: http://lugm.org
> >>>>>> Mailing list archive: http://lugm.org/pipermail/discuss_lugm.org/
> > Forum: http://lugm.org/forum/
> >>>>>> IRC: #linux.mu on Freenode
> >>>>> __________________________________________________________
> >>>>> Linux User Group of Mauritius (LUGM) Discuss mailing list
> >>>>> Website: http://lugm.org
> >>>>> Mailing list archive: http://lugm.org/pipermail/discuss_lugm.org/
> > Forum: http://lugm.org/forum/
> >>>>> IRC: #linux.mu on Freenode
> >>> __________________________________________________________
> >>> Linux User Group of Mauritius (LUGM) Discuss mailing list
> >>> Website: http://lugm.org
> >>> Mailing list archive: http://lugm.org/pipermail/discuss_lugm.org/
> > Forum: http://lugm.org/forum/
> >>> IRC: #linux.mu on Freenode
> >>
> >>
> >> __________________________________________________________
> >> Linux User Group of Mauritius (LUGM) Discuss mailing list
> >> Website: http://lugm.org
> >> Mailing list archive: http://lugm.org/pipermail/discuss_lugm.org/Forum:
> > http://lugm.org/forum/
> >> IRC: #linux.mu on Freenode
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________________
> > Linux User Group of Mauritius (LUGM) Discuss mailing list
> > Website: http://lugm.org
> > Mailing list archive: http://lugm.org/pipermail/discuss_lugm.org/
> > Forum: http://lugm.org/forum/
> > IRC: #linux.mu on Freenode
> >
>
> __________________________________________________________
> Linux User Group of Mauritius (LUGM) Discuss mailing list
> Website: http://lugm.org
> Mailing list archive: http://lugm.org/pipermail/discuss_lugm.org/
> Forum: http://lugm.org/forum/
> IRC: #linux.mu on Freenode****
>
> ** **
>
> __________________________________________________________
> Linux User Group of Mauritius (LUGM) Discuss mailing list
> Website: http://lugm.org
> Mailing list archive: http://lugm.org/pipermail/discuss_lugm.org/
> Forum: http://lugm.org/forum/
> IRC: #linux.mu on Freenode
>
>
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