[lugm.org] Fwd: [FTF-Legal] Mildly GPL related case in Supreme Court of Mauritius
Aadil Noorkhan
aadil at lavabit.com
Tue Jun 28 16:40:41 UTC 2011
I meant other groups/individuals like the FSF and/or Harald Welte for
example.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/et+al.
Cheers,
Aadil.
On 6/28/2011 8:19 PM, Ronny R. wrote:
> i'm ok for asking help from EFF and al.
>
> whois al anyway? :)
>
> Cheers
>
> Ronny
>
> On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 8:13 PM,<aadil at lavabit.com> wrote:
>> Apologies for the spam (SMTP server issues).
>>
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> Of course the LUGM should not get directly involved.
>>>
>>> How should we proceed then? What do the others think? Is submitting
>> the documents to the defendant's lawyers the only solution? How about
>> asking for advice from the EFF and al?
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Aadil.
>>>
>>> On 6/28/2011 7:43 PM, Ronny R. wrote:
>>>> In law, standing or locus standi is the term for the ability of a party
>> to demonstrate to the court sufficient connection to and harm from the
>> law or action challenged to support that party's
>>>> participation in the case
>>>> On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 7:41 PM, Ronny R.<redoverlord at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>>> like i said
>>>>> this is a civil case, so as long as we dont have a locus standi, we
>> cannot get involved directly by submitting anything.
>>>>> The only was we get involved is that the defendant use us as experts
>> in FOSS laws (which we are not)
>>>>> We can only get the documents and submit to the defendant's lawyers
>> who will submit to the court.
>>>>> I also wonder if the mauritian courts have these documents.
>>>>> But definitely we cannot allow this case to cause a precedence which
>> will be used in case of other future case.
>>>>> Cheers
>>>>> Ronny
>>>>> On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 7:19 PM, Aadil Noorkhan<aadil at lavabit.com>
>> wrote:
>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>> Indeed. The defendant and plaintiff should seek the court's help in
>> settling this argument.
>>>>>> It is disturbing to note, however, that statement 5 of the affidavit
>> contradicts the main points of the GPL.
>>>>>> This can used as a precedence for future cases.
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>> Aadil.
>>>>>> On 6/28/2011 7:00 PM, Ajay R Ramjatan wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>> From what I understand, the defendant was contracted to work on
>>>>>>> some
>>>>>>> code for Linux Solutions. The defendant decided to publish the code
>> without the consent of the employer.
>>>>>>> If that's accurate, the defendant was doing a "work for hire" and was
>>>>>>> in the wrong to release the code.
>>>>>>> It does not seem to be a case of a customer buying a PABX product from
>>>>>>> Linux Solutions and then changing/redistributing GPL code
>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 18:46, Aadil Noorkhan<aadil at lavabit.com>
>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>>>> I agree with Ronny: we are not lawyers and not expert in FOSS
>> licences.
>>>>>>>> But
>>>>>>>> we should have a better understanding of those licences than most
>> people
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> should point it to the law, while remaining neutral.
>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>> Aadil.
>>>>>>>> On 6/28/2011 6:40 PM, Ronny R. wrote:
>>>>>>>>> we can also make the applicant aware that we are keen to help the
>> defendant
>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 6:39 PM, Ronny R.<redoverlord at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> hello
>>>>>>>>>> my opinion is that
>>>>>>>>>> 1. we are not lawyers
>>>>>>>>>> 2. sending a letter to the court is of no use as we dont have any
>> locus
>>>>>>>>>> standi
>>>>>>>>>> 3. we better advise defendant to counter affidavit the one of the
>> applicant and then we can be of some help
>>>>>>>>>> but please note that in no case can we act as expert og the GPL
>> laws,
>>>>>>>>>> we can provide the text and let the lawyers of the defendant analyse
>>>>>>>>>> and show to the court.
>>>>>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>>>>>> Ronny
>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 6:26 PM, Aadil
>> Noorkhan<aadil at lavabit.com>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>>>>>>> The fraudulent statements in the affidavit are disturbing
>> indeed.
>>>>>>>>>>> We should inform the Supreme Court and both parties of the
>> misleading
>>>>>>>>>>> statements via email and a letter, backed by solid evidence and
>> signed
>>>>>>>>>>> by
>>>>>>>>>>> the LUGM managing committee, or simply the president.
>>>>>>>>>>> If no response is received then we sent the letter to the press.
>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>>> Aadil.
>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/28/2011 5:24 PM, Avinash Meetoo wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Dear all,
>>>>>>>>>>>> I have just received this email from Philip Hands in the UK
>> referring
>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>> a case currently in the Supreme Court of Mauritius. It would seem
>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>> the two parties involved have different opinions on what an
>> open
>>>>>>>>>>>> source
>>>>>>>>>>>> license really is, more specifically the GPL. Someone called
>> Harald
>>>>>>>>>>>> Welte has written a post on his blog on this matter.
>>>>>>>>>>>> A few months ago, someone called me at work asking me about
>> what
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> GPL
>>>>>>>>>>>> really means but I am not sure whether he is one of the parties
>> concerned.
>>>>>>>>>>>> What do you think?
>>>>>>>>>>>> Avinash
>>>>>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>>>>>> From: *Philip Hands*<phil at hands.com<mailto:phil at hands.com>>
>> Date: Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 4:01 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [FTF-Legal] Mildly GPL related case in Supreme Court
>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>> Mauritius
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Avinash,
>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm forwarding this to your mailing list in the hope that
>> someone on
>>>>>>>>>>>> the list knows how to inform your Supreme Court properly. It
>> wasn't
>>>>>>>>>>>> clear to me if that was a subscriber-only list though, so I'm also
>>>>>>>>>>>> sending it to you direct, as you appear to to be the founder of
>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> LUG. I hope that's OK.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Here is the main point from the attached mail:
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://laforge.gnumonks.org/weblog/2011/06/27/
>>>>>>>>>>>> in which you can see that someone from
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.linuxsolutions.mu/
>>>>>>>>>>>> seem to be claiming (under oath) that there is no difference
>> between
>>>>>>>>>>>> GPL
>>>>>>>>>>>> licensed software, and Public Domain.
>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm sure that any feedback that you have would be welcome,
>> either on
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> ftf-legal-bounces at fsfeurope.org<mailto:ftf-legal-bounces at fsfeurope.org>
>> mailing list, or perhaps if you get in
>>>>>>>>>>>> touch with Harald Welte<laforge at gnumonks.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:laforge at gnumonks.org>>, and he can then update
>>>>>>>>>>>> his blog (of course, you're welcome to reply to me as well).
>> Cheers, Phil.
>>>>>>>>>>>> P.S. FYI I'm a long-time Debian Developer, and have hosted the
>> Debian
>>>>>>>>>>>> UK
>>>>>>>>>>>> mirror (ftp.uk.debian.org<http://ftp.uk.debian.org>) since the mid
>>>>>>>>>>>> 90's
>>>>>>>>>>>> -- and I make occasional
>>>>>>>>>>>> contributions to the Free Software Foundation Europe mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> where
>>>>>>>>>>>> this issue came up.
>>>>>>>>>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Harald
>>>>>>>>>>>> Welte<laforge at gnumonks.org<mailto:laforge at gnumonks.org>> To:
>> ftf-legal at fsfeurope.org<mailto:ftf-legal at fsfeurope.org> Date:
>> Tue, 28 Jun 2011 11:58:53 +0200
>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [FTF-Legal] Mildly GPL related case in Supreme Court
>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>> Mauritius
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>>>> since I don't expect everyone here is following my blog, I
>> would
>>>>>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>> post a small notice here:
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://laforge.gnumonks.org/weblog/2011/06/27/
>>>>>>>>>>>> The case is mostly about whether or not a freelancing
>> contractor
>>>>>>>>>>>> (defendant) has broken and NDA and anti-competition clauses he
>> signed
>>>>>>>>>>>> with the plaintiff.
>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't understand all the details as I have only some of the
>> documents, but for whatever reasons a "duly authorized
>> marketing
>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>> sales executive" of the company ceritifed under oath that
>> "open-source
>>>>>>>>>>>> software like "Linux" have no copyright restrictions, which in
>> effect
>>>>>>>>>>>> puts no restrictions on their user or distribution". And
>> furthermore,
>>>>>>>>>>>> "any work derived from the open source software [...] becomes the
>>>>>>>>>>>> ownership of the applicant"
>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't really see how this is cloesly related to the heart of the
>>>>>>>>>>>> case,
>>>>>>>>>>>> but I still think it's devastating to see such an argument be
>> made in
>>>>>>>>>>>> front of the highest court of any (albeit small) country. I'm
>> not sure what can be done by the outside world (e.g. us) to
>> help
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> court understand that Linux as well as Asterisk are very well
>> copyrighted works, and that at least Linux is only available
>> under
>>>>>>>>>>>> GPLv2, which has a number of conditions on its distribution. If
>> anyone is interested in this, I have some more documetns
>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> defendant has permitted me to share (not sure if he has
>> authority to
>>>>>>>>>>>> permit that, but well...).
>>>>>>>>>>>> (and in case you wonder, Mauritius has signed the Berne
>> convention in
>>>>>>>>>>>> 1989).
>>>>>>>>>>>> Specifically if anyone has an interest to send some kind of
>> letter/amicus curiae to the court clarifying the issue, it
>> would
>>>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>>> great. Apparently there are arguments on the lines of "you cannot
>>>>>>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>>>>>>> download the GPL text from the internet and claim it is valid"
>> etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>> The Judge seemed to describe himself as 'computer illiterate'.
>> Maybe there are also some existing English legal publications
>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>> one
>>>>>>>>>>>> could DHL/FedEx/UPS to the court ;)
>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Harald
>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>> - Harald
>>>>>>>>>>>> Welte<laforge at gnumonks.org<mailto:laforge at gnumonks.org>>
>> http://laforge.gnumonks.org/
>>>>>>>>>>>> ============================================================================
>> "Privacy in residential applications is a desirable marketing
>> option."
>>>>>>>>>>>> (ETSI EN 300
>>>>>>>>>>>> 175-7
>>>>>>>>>>>> Ch.
>>>>>>>>>>>> A6)
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> FTF-Legal mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> FTF-Legal at fsfeurope.org<mailto:FTF-Legal at fsfeurope.org>
>> https://mail.fsfeurope.org/mailman/listinfo/ftf-legal
>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>> |)| Philip Hands [+44 (0)20 8530 9560
>>>>>>>>>>>> <tel:%5B%2B44%20%280%2920%208530%209560>] http://www.hands.com/
>> |-| HANDS.COM<http://HANDS.COM> Ltd.
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.uk.debian.org/
>>>>>>>>>>>> |(| 10 Onslow Gardens, South Woodford, London E18 1NE
>> ENGLAND
>>>>>>>>>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>> *Avinash Meetoo**
>>>>>>>>>>>> **Managing-Director of Knowledge Seven*
>>>>>>>>>>>> Call me on 493-9394 (Mobile) or 464-7446 (Office)
>>>>>>>>>>>> I am on my portal<http://www.avinashmeetoo.com/>, LinkedIn
>> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/avinashmeetoo>, Twitter
>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://twitter.com/AvinashMeetoo> and Facebook
>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.facebook.com/avinashmeetoo>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Visit Knowledge Seven<http://www.knowledge7.com/> and our
>> other
>>>>>>>>>>>> sister
>>>>>>>>>>>> websites<http://www.knowledge7.com/page/internet-services>
>> __________________________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________________ Linux
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>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________________ Linux
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>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>
> __________________________________________________________
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